Natrona County Commissioners experiencing ‘obvious tension’ with each other

CASPER, Wyo. — The Natrona County Board of County Commissioners is made up of five men with five different personalities, different belief systems and, seemingly, different ideas on how the county should be run. Sometimes, those ideas lead to a clash among the board members. Such was the case at the Jan. 21 board meeting.

After spending the afternoon hearing appointments about golf cart resolutions, the lack of a fire alarm at the Casper Mountain Nordic Lodge, and a Master Plan and Economic Analysis of the Platte Rivers Commons, the county commissioners returned from their executive session for general discussion to talk about board terms and who would be the best person to represent the commission for the Wyoming County Commissioner’s Association.

Commissioner Peter Nicolaysen began the WCCA discussion, and said the Natrona County Board of Commissioners should decide on who would represent them.

“I had served on that last year and I had expressed interest on serving on it again this year,” Nicolaysen said. “My understanding is that [Commissioner North] also has some interest in serving on that [board], and I think this is one of those situations where the commission needs to make a decision as a group on which of us is gonna be on that board.”

Commissioner Dallas Laird took the floor, and said that, based on history and precedent, the chairman of the Natrona County commissioners should be the liaison to the WCCA.

“I would support the current Chairman [Commissioner Dave North] to do that, as I did when you [Commissioner Nicolaysen] took it last year, and when Jim [Milne] had it two years ago,” Laird said. “And I think it should be dispersed among the members; for one member to hold all these different positions for the whole four years they’re in, I don’t think that’s what the statute ever intended, on a five-man commission.”

Laird said with other commissions he’d been involved with over the years, the chairmanship shifted every year, as did the various liaison-ships.

North agreed.

“I have done a little background on this, and looked at it, and traditionally, the chairman is the WCCA representative,” North said. “That’s what I stated before we ever had the elections; is that that’s the way it should be. And I still hold to that feeling. That is the chairman’s position, to represent. That’s just part of it. Next year, when I’m not the chairman, it’ll be someone else.”

Like Laird, North said he believes the commissioner chairman position should be rotated yearly, as should the WCCA position.

Nicolaysen disagreed.

“This body has the power to do just about anything it wants,” he said. “With a majority decision. Whether it’s typically done that way or not is a different issue.”

He continued, adding he believed he was “the better candidate for the position for this year. I think that I showed that when I convinced the WCCA through a letter and through an oral request to the amicus on the Teton Wyoming state of Wyoming case. The fact of the matter is, that is exactly the type of representation that I’m gonna  bring to the WCCA board. I also have a lot of contacts in Cheyenne and can utilize those for the best interest of our citizens.”

Laird attempted to appeal to both men, telling Nicolaysen that he had done a good job, but there’s more to it than that.

“I think that this commission has been criticized because they just don’t get along with each other. And I’m sad about that. Truly am,” he said. “And I feel that the past couple years, a lot of things have happened here that didn’t require a meeting, that people just assumed to do. And one of them is that particular chairmanship. And I never really commented on it. It was something that I wasn’t personally interested in at the time. And I think at this point, Dave is a good person for this.”

Laird said North knows a lot about the county and he knows most of the county employees. Laird referenced the fact that North had been on the Board of County Commissioners two years longer than he, himself, and almost two years longer than Nicolaysen.

“I don’t regret last year voting you as the chairman,” Laird told Nicolaysen. “And knowing that you were going to get to be the liaison. And this year, our new chairman was elected. You ran against him. You lost that vote. And now one of the main points for being the chairman is that you’re the spokesperson for the commission.”

Laird emphasized that because North was voted to be the chairman, he should represent the commission.  

“It’s not that I don’t want you, Mr. Nicolaysen,” Laird said, “I’d say you’re the most brilliant guy on the board here. But what makes a good board is that all members get to play in the game. Not just one guy.”

Commissioner Casey Coates agreed, and said that “If the two of you worked together, the county would absolutely win.”

North agreed.

“We need to work together on everything we’re doing,” he said. “And not be so divisive and unfortunately, I don’t always feel like that is a two-way street. I am open and I’m willing to listen to other things and I do believe that the county can be a better place and that we need to work together and that’s one thing that I do agree with, one hundred percent. And I do think this should go to the chairman position on an annual basis.’

Nicolaysen did not agree nor disagree with North; instead, he changed subjects.

“Mr. Chairman, I think we should also discuss the position of the County Commission on the Senate File 47,” he said. “I would make a motion to oppose Senate File 47.”

Senate File 47, is “An act relating to public recreation and playgrounds; authorizing the governing body of a city, town, county, or school district to act as a board of trustees for a system of public recreation as specified; making conforming amendments; and providing for an effective date.”

Laird asked if he could be recognized, and then said he didn’t believe it was up for a vote. He said it was more of an individual belief system.

Milne disagreed.

“I think as a commission, we should come to an agreement on this,” he said.

“I have the floor,” Laird interjected. “I have the floor, Jim. I have the floor. I got recognized. Let me finish, please.”

“There isn’t a recognition,” Milne said, raising his voice. “You either second it or you don’t.”

“Well, you’re not the Chairman,” Laid said. “Please let me finish.”

“I’m seconding the motion so that we can have a discussion,” Milne said.

“I think it’s out of order,” Laird said. “There wasn’t a motion called for. But what I’m saying is that whether whatever anybody wants, in terms of the statute, is their business. I don’t like the idea of somebody trying to bring up a vote on a statute that I may or may not agree with, and try to force something down my throat. I just don’t think it’s appropriate.”

North then offered the floor to Milne.

“So, I did second it,” Milne said. “We are having a discussion at this point. We, as a group of county commissioners, should let the public know whether we are in support of a statutory board, or if we want to have an advisory board. I have always been of the mind that this board should have a statutory board. There’s other commissioners that I think should let the public, their people, know that they don’t actually support the statutory board that their people actually want them to support.”

Milne said he was in favor of a vote.

“I’d love to have one,” he said.

“Well, I think point of order,” Laird said. “This isn’t on the agenda. You’re out of order in my opinion. And so now I’m going to ask the county attorney and the chairman, because you’re out of order. Besides interrupting people.”

North said the issue was one that should be discussed at the WCCA, not at the current meeting with the current individuals.

Milne started laughing.

“You’re being demeaning,” Laird said. “You’re being demeaning Mr. Milne and I think you should stop that.”

Nicolaysen said he had some discussion points regarding the motion.

Laird again reiterated that he had made a point of order.

“I would like a ruling,” he said. “It’s not on the agenda. I wasn’t prepared to discuss this. Didn’t know it was coming up. What is the call, madame?”

“I sent an email before the meeting today,” Nicolaysen said.

“It’s not on the agenda,” Laird repeated.

Natrona County Attorney Heather Duncan-Malone said that since the commissioners had not yet adopted, nor voted to approve the agenda, they could, in fact, consider the motion, which allowed Nicolaysen to offer further comments.

“Natrona County is a poster child for poorly operated parks and recreational facilities,” he stated. “And you, as the board liaison, I think know that firsthand. It’s a tragedy, because Natrona County has world class parks and recreation opportunities that I think have unlimited potential for development. I think the only way that’s going to happen is if we stick with the statutes that have been in place since 1994. I think that we need to take a position as a board, since you are going to be down there, and you’ve already been in touch with many of our Natrona County representatives who were under the impression that you were speaking on behalf of this commission. Or on behalf of the parks board. Neither of which was the case. You were speaking on behalf of your destroying the trust outside the board on your own behalf. It’s ripe for confusion if we don’t take a position on this as a board.”

Nicolaysen told North he was ���welcome to continuing lobbying on your own behalf, with your own beliefs. Commissioner Laird is too. But, as a board, I think we need clarification.”

“Well, I’m gonna disagree with you on that,” North said. “I think this is something that we need to talk about down at the WCCA meeting. And I do think this is out of order.”

“I called a question,” Nicolaysen said.

“You didn’t have the floor,” North responded. “I did.”

“You can call the question at anytime,” Nicolaysen said.

“I have the floor,” North reiterated. “I did not relinquish the floor to you. So I don’t believe that this is something that we need to discuss at this point in time. You’ve made accusations. Again.”

“Are you saying this commission can not make a motion, properly second it, and then vote on it?” Nicolaysen asked.

“That’s not what I said,” North stated. “I said you’re out of order.”

“So can we vote on it?” Nicolaysen asked. “I called the question.”

“Mr. Nicolaysen, you don’t have the floor right now,” North repeated. “So, you wait until I’m done. And then you can have the floor. That’s part of the problem; the dissension that we have. Because of the lack of respect. It’s where the problem comes in. And that’s not acceptable. We need to have decorum. We need to cover things. And we need to do it correctly. And this is not the way you should be doing things.”

North continued, telling Nicolaysen, “If you have a question — yeah, you send an email. Which is what you like to do, is drop things at the last minute. Which is not appropriate. You don’t openly discuss things, and that’s where I have the problem.”

Laird spoke up, saying he had “just a little more discussion.”

“That’s improper,” Nicolayen said, mimicking Laird’s previous statement. “It’s improper.”

Laird said he just wanted to know more about the statute.

“I’d like to know what the statute is that you want us to vote on,” Laird said. “Do you have a copy of it, so that I can read it?”

“Commissioner Laird, the question’s been called,” Nicolaysen said.

“But we’re not prepared…I’m, personally, not prepared to vote. Because I’m not sure what statute you’re talking about,” Laird said.

Nicolaysen said something with his microphone turned off, causing Laird to say, “Well, I would like to vote with knowledge, actually. But this has surprised me. I’m surprised by this. And it’s not on the agenda.”

“The question’s been called,” Nicolaysen again remarked.

Laird asked if Nicolaysen had a copy of the statute for him to read.

“You know, procedurally, how to operate,” Nicolaysen said.

“Yeah, I do,” North replied. “Unfortunately, you don’t always follow those procedures either, so. Which is sad. Because that’s exactly what we need to get over. We need to follow and be candor, but we need to be polite and courteous to each other.”

The commissioners eventually voted in favor of the statute, 3-2, before moving on to approval of the consent agenda, followed by public comment.

Altogether, the commissioners spent about 35 minutes of their meeting on their general discussion.

Oil City News reached out to the Natrona County Board of County Commissioners for comment on their dissension during the meeting, by phone call and by email. Two commissioners responded via email.

Milne declined to comment, and North wrote that, “Yes, there has been obvious tension. My hope is that the commission members can resolve these issues and work for the good of the county,”

Coates, the newest member of the board of county commissioners, was the only one to speak to Oil City News by phone.

“As a general rule, no conversation that’s ever had involves just the content of that conversation,” Coates said. “It involves all the conversations and dealings of the past as well. So if the public feels that there’s contention and there’s disharmony, it likely has to do with the relationship at that time, prior to that particular meeting.”

Coates said he was deliberately quiet during the more contentious aspects of the general discussion.

“I have a master’s in psychology, but I would not even want to start dabbling into four other men’s personal problems with each other,” Coates laughed. “That’s beyond my desire.”

Coates said it’s not his job, nor his role, to play peacekeeper or mediator during the commission meetings.

“My only real goal right now, besides the smooth operation of the county, is finding common ground where we can just move things forward in a positive way,” Coates stated. “If you watch the meeting, I have some comments at the end that are pointed toward the four of them.”

Coates’s comments were the last of the evening.

“This certainly has been an interesting night, to say the very least,” he said. “In my view, we’re experiencing the favor and the folly of our forefathers and the commissioners that came before us. Unfortunately, apart from looking at past commissions, today, as we opened with prayer, I think it’s appropriate to highlight the fact that I think the spirit of the serpent has invaded the hearts and minds of this board. Moving forward, it’s my view that the board has the duty to move this county forward beyond our personal disagreements. Very much so, as the junior of this board, across a number of dimensions, I implore us to seek progress, leave all this childishness behind, for the good of the county overall.”

The full meeting can be seen by clicking here. The general discussion portion of the meeting begins at 2:53:57.