‘Devolving into absurdity’: Natrona County commissioners argue over Parks Advisory Board dissolution

CASPER, Wyo. — The Natrona County Board of Commissioners again diverted its bi-weekly meeting into a dispute among its members, this time regarding the dissolution of the Natrona County Parks Advisory Board.

The discussion began when Commissioner Jim Milne noted that Natrona County currently has a Parks Advisory Board and a Parks Trustee Board, “which is kind of confusing for the public.”

Milne brought up the idea of dissolving the advisory board, noting its existence was redundant, due to the Parks Trustees Board.

A resolution that was shared in the Board of County Comminssioners agenda states that the Natrona County Parks Board was established on Dec. 9, 1995 and, since that date, it has served in an advisory capacity.

The resolution also states the Natrona County Parks and Recreation System Board of Trustees was organized on July 15, 2024, and the actual Board of Trustees were elected on Aug. 13, 2024.

“The duties of the Natrona County Parks and Recreation System Board of Trustees render an advisory board duplicative and therefore dissolution is in the best interests of the people of Natrona County,” it states.

The resolution called for the discharge of the advisory board, with “great appreciation for their service.”

It bore Chairman Dave North’s name, was attested to County Clerk Tracy Good, and was in agreement with Milne’s opinion.

“My recommendation was to go ahead and thank the advisory board for their work for the last two years, [and] then to remove that board, disband that board,” Milne said. “Then, if the Parks Board of Trustees decides they need an advisory board, they can constitute that board at that point.”

Milne reiterated the park advisory board has done good work but the board of trustees needs to be the executive body that determines their own advisory board, if they actually even need one. Milne also encouraged the members of the advisory board to “put in” to become a member of the trustees board.

With that, Commissioner Peter Nicolaysen attempted to make a motion to dissolve the advisory board, per Milne’s recommendation.

North did not agree.

“We don’t have that on the agenda,” North said. “So, I’m not going to accept that right now. That’s out of order. This is for discussion. We’re just discussing at this point in time, so I’m not going to accept that motion.”

Nicolaysen raised another point in the matter of policy and procedure.

“All right, we didn’t have the investment policy on the agenda either,” he said, referencing a previous issue that came up during their meeting. “In any event, I would ask our legal counsel if it’s appropriate for us to make such a motion. We did kind of discuss this at our previous meeting.”

Nicolaysen asked Natrona County Attorney Heather Duncan-Malone what her position on the matter was and if they had the authority to dissolve the board.

“Commissioner Nicolaysen, I still think you’re out of order,” North said.

“Mister Chairman, I have the floor,” Nicolaysen replied. “And I’m asking our legal counsel her opinion.”

“And I’ve already expressed that you’re out of order,” North said. “And you continued. So, at this point in time, I do believe that you’re out of order on this and we need to continue the discussion.”

Not to be deterred, Nicolaysen nevertheless persisted.

“Mister Chairman,” Nicolaysen said, “I have the right to ask our attorney her legal opinion. And if the ruling of the chair is that a commissioner, an elected commissioner, doesn’t have the right to ask legal counsel an opinion, I think you’re way out of line. And if that’s your decision, I would appeal the chair’s decision.”

Nicolaysen then said, as a point of order, a second was needed to move the motion forward.

Commissioner Dallas Laird interjected and recommended that the subject be discussed during an executive session, due to Nicolaysen seeking legal counsel. Laird sought further clarification about whether they should discuss the matter further in an executive session, but Milne reiterated that those involved with both boards deserved a solid answer as to the future of the boards.

“My letter to this board requesting this topic was a discussion, and a decision,” Milne said. “And I think the advisory board deserve to not be in limbo, but to actually have a decision by this board as to what their future holds.”

Laird said he was “still confused.” He pointed to the agenda and said there were different points that they were to discuss the issue. He reaffirmed that if the board was seeking legal advice, it should do so behind closed doors in an executive session.

“We ask our legal attorney for advice all the time,” Nicolaysen argued. “And we don’t go into executive session the vast majority of the time, in the two-and-a-half years I’ve been on this board. If appropriate, we certainly could do that, but whether or not a commissioner has the procedural power, even to consult … you’re trying to keep us from consulting our attorney during a board meeting.”

Nicolaysen said he believed matters such as these should be discussed in public.

Laird asked what the conditions were to receive legal advice in public, or in an executive session, and Duncan-Malone clarified that issue at hand was whether the board had the ability to adopt a motion to dissolve the parks advisory board.

“Before we go any further on this, I do have more discussion,” North said.

“Why won’t you let our attorney answer the question?” Nicolaysen challenged.

Duncan-Malone said the issue highlights the necessity for adopting rules for commissioner meetings that could be referenced, consulted and followed in future meetings.

“To Commissioner Nicolaysen’s point, we did just approve the amended investment policy earlier in the afternoon, during the appointment portion, which was a discussion,” she offered.

Though none of the commissioners who had spoken thus far had completely followed points of order in terms of being called upon to speak, Laird chastised Duncan-Malone for her apparent transgression.

“Miss County Attorney, we didn’t call on you yet,” Laird said. “You didn’t even ask to be recognize. And I want to know if you’re prepared, legally, to answer this question and [whether] you can show me a statute or a case that reflects this. What I asked you was, is this something that should be done in executive session and isn’t one of the issues for executive session legal advice? So? Isn’t it?”

Duncan-Malone defended herself, stating that commissioners did ask for her response.

“You called on me, so I did have the floor,” she said. “So I’m going to speak to that and I’m prepared to –“

“My question was simple,” Laird interrupted. “Is this an executive session matter?”

“No,” she replied.

Laird asked her why that was the case and asked her to read what was required in an executive session.

“It’s for legal advice, it can be, for matters considered confidential under law, which can include legal advice,” she said.

“OK, well, I think if you read that, you’ve added to it,” Laird replied.

Before things could continue, North called on Commissioner Casey Coates.

“Once again, we’re devolving into this point of absurdity,” Coates said. “I think there’s some decorum we should follow. I think that we should respect our fellow commissioners. I think we should entertain motions, regardless of how they may turn out. We need to have some respect for one another and our opinions and our desires, for the better of the county.”

North said he wanted more discussion on the subject before any motions were carried.

“There are a lot of questions right now that have not been answered about this board,” North said. “Unfortunately, there’s been a lot of cases of paperwork slipping through the cracks in this county over the years, for whatever reason. And there’s a lot of things that haven’t been answered and until those questions are answered, I don’t believe that we can take action on something when we don’t have the answer to it.”

Nicolaysen tried to interject and raise another question.

“You don’t have the floor,” North told him. “You don’t have the floor, I’m not done … I will call on you when I’m finished.”

North again said he did not want to make any decisions without finding specific answers to specific questions. Then he called on Nicolaysen.

“OK, so here’s how it works,” Nicolaysen began. “The way it works is that someone makes a motion. And if it’s seconded, then there’s discussion, and points like the ones you were just making are entirely appropriate. And then the body would get to vote on it and we’d be done. If there’s not a second, then we’re done talking about it. But what happens is, if you, as a dictator, say, ‘We’re not going to do something,’ then that doesn’t serve the public well and it’s not right.”

Nicolaysen said that, as elected officials, each commissioner has equal power.

“So the process is really simple,” he continued. “Motion, second, discussion, vote.”

Laird spoke again and, as in past meetings, said he believed it’s the chairman of the board who controls the flow of the meetings.

“I would appreciate it if the county attorney would review the statute concerning the duties of the chairman and who runs the meeting,” he said. “And it’s not you, Miss County Attorney. It isn’t you. And it’s one person.”

Though the county attorney didn’t speak until she was asked her opinion, Laird continued to address her directly.

“Since there are no rules, I would say the rule is [North] runs the meeting and it should be respected. And if you can’t understand that, I’d like you to go research it and present me the research where I’m wrong. But I don’t want anymore opinions from you that you don’t have the material backing you up.”

The commissioners continued to discuss the history of the advisory board and how it compared to other advisory boards throughout the state. Laird asked if the new board of trustees was fully formed because, logically, it wouldn’t make sense to dissolve one board if the other was not fully set up,

“I’m continually confused by what everybody says here,” Laird said. “So, we have a partially formed parks board? It hasn’t been completed yet, am I right?”

Duncan-Malone said no, he was not right.

“It’s fully formed; we just haven’t adopted bylaws as of yet,” she said. “But the board itself is properly constituted.”

“But, to make it official, what do we have left to do?” Laird asked.

“You’ve done it already,” Duncan-Malone replied. “You did that in August. You don’t have to do anything else.”

Laird questioned whether the board needed bylaws to operate, and Duncan-Malone said that no, it did not, though having bylaws in place was “a good practice.”

“That would surprise me,” Laird said. “Do you have something that backs that up? I just want to get it done properly.”

North agreed.

“I’m in agreement with the commissioner on this,” North said. “I’m not saying that at some point in time it’s not gonna happen, but I’m just saying that right now, I don’t believe it’s the right time.”

The full meeting can be seen here, with discussion on the parks board beginning at 1:51:56.